Barcelona stirs up controversy again in the poker world during this year’s EPT. In 2013 Jens “Jeans” Kyllönen reported that his hotel room was entered and malicious software installed in his computer enabling the criminals to see his computer screen from a remote computer. Jeans reported the incident on TwoPlusTwo poker forums thread My unbelievable EPT Barcelona story. Hotel rooms in arts barcelona broken into to plant trojans.
This week, Dani “Ansky” Stern (read his Poker Player Snapshot) got into middle of controversial decision by the Barcelona Casino floorman during a high stakes cash game running during EPT Barcelona. He tells the full story in the TwoPlusTwo thread Cheated out of €18k at Casino Barcelona:
“This is my best attempt at a comprehensive summary of what just unfolded at the casino at EPT Barcelona. There were several other people there who can verify that everything I have written happened exactly as I said. Just putting this out there as a precaution to anyone who plays at this casino. The cash games here are not run by Stars to be clear. This is in the casino where the event is being held, but the cash games are run by the casino.
We are playing €100/€200 PLO in the high stakes section of the poker room. Two players limp in EP, I make it 1100 with KhKcJd9d in MP, Juha Helppi calls in the CO, Bullitos calls after him in the SB, and an older Spanish guy pots it to 5900 from the BB. The sizing might be a tiny bit off, but not by more than 300. Limpers fold, I call, Juha calls and Bullitos does as well. The pot is roughly 24k.
The flop is Ks9s7x. Bullitos checks, BB shoves for slightly over 10k, I jam for around 40k, Juha folds, and Bullitos calls all in for around 4k-5k. At this point we tell the dealer to stop so we can discuss running it twice. I was concerned with the language barrier so several times I clarified that we were running it twice for the whole pot. I specifically said the whole pot, run it twice, so that there would be no confusion. We all agree.
The first board runs out Ks9s7x As 4x. Second board runs out 7x 6x. BB shows AAxx, and I table my hand. Bullitos has a wrap which gets scooped. So at this point we should be chopping up Bullitos’ money as well as the main pot, and each taking back our money for the side pot. In total the main pot has around 36k in it after the flop action, so my share should be 18k. This is when the chaos starts.
The Spanish guy now claims that the casino has a rule that you can only run it twice in heads up pots, and that for multi way pots running it twice is forbidden. Because of this, he is claiming that running it twice is only valid for the side pot, and that only the first board counts for the main pot. At this point there is a huge crowd gathered, and there is lots of yelling in both English and Spanish. The dealer is a bit overwhelmed and is just kind of sitting there doing nothing, and the BB then walks away to go get a floor guy. He appears to be a local and to know the staff, but I will admit that is just my read of the stiation and I don’t know that for sure.
Eventually the floor guy comes over and takes stock of the situation and rules in my favor, saying that because we all agreed to run it twice, it was valid for the entire pot. Then they summon what appeared to be a higher up floor guy, who ruled against me. He said that because the house rule is that running it twice in mutli way pots is forbidden, that the entire main pot is awarded to the BB with AA.
Thomas Bichon, Bullitos, and especially Juha were all arguing with the floor that we agreed to run it twice, and that this guy was angling, and by ruling in his favor they are explicitly supporting cheating. I brought up the following scenario to the floor, and demanded that he get an answer from the BB. What if the board run outs were reversed, and I won the first run out and lost the second? What would happen then? I clearly didn’t know about this rule and would never have claimed the entire pot for myself. He seemed to understand that that was the key point, but still didn’t change his ruling. He asked the BB (in Spanish which I don’t understand well enough to follow what they were saying) the same question, and apparently his response was that he had no agreement on running it twice in the main pot. This was a very blatant lie, and everyone at the table who spoke English was in agreement that he was lying.
Juha was especially angry at the situation, and said he was going to take a picture. I’m not sure if he intended to take a picture of the player who was angling, or the floor, but either way the floor told him that if he took a picture he would be banned from the casino. Juha then asked the floor what his name was, and he refused to tell him. Juha asked several more times and the floor kept saying that his name was “poker manager.” No one on the staff was willing to give their name or any kind of a business card, and seemed very intent on shutting all of the foreign players up.
After all of this the floor instructed the dealer to ship the pot to the BB, and that the argument was over. Despite this still being a great game, I was too shocked and too pissed off to continue playing and left.
Anyway that is what happened, I think Juha will come to the thread to chime in as well.”
Ansky continues in a later post:
“To be clear this was not the first time it had been ran twice at this table, including multi way all ins. We had been running it twice all night, and many times that included multi way all ins and no one said anything.
This is what some people don’t seem to understand. There is an implicit understanding of the rules happening here. When a player sees other players running it twice in 3 way all ins, and the pot being chopped up after, he should expect that it is within the rules. A rule that is only enforced when it benefits the local player is not much of a rule. It is not right that all the players are watching 3 way all ins, and the one Spanish player knows he can sit and wait for the opportunity to angle the foreigners when he finally gets in a 3 way all in with a side pot.”
Poster “Irieguy” chimed in with a good comment:
“Dani,
This sucks and I am sorry to hear that things went down the way they did. But at least it creates an opportunity to highlight what is actually a pretty common general source of controversy and pain in both public and private poker rooms.
Running it twice is essentially a gentleman’s agreement, and is best suited for gentlemen. There are several practices at the poker table that are frequently conducted in a similar spirit: last-longers, flop props, and even chops or deals in tournaments. Most of the time, gentlemen’s agreements work out even with strangers. So the familiarity and ubiquity of the practices create a false sense of security. But if you play poker long enough, you will be angle-shot or downright cheated in each of these circumstances. While there are exceptions, the casino cannot usually be counted on to enforce the gentleman’s side of any of these arrangements. I’m actually surprised that you’ve never had a run-it-twice controversy before.
I think it is a pretty good idea to avoid all of these things with strangers. No last longers, no flop props, no deals, and no running it twice. It’s guaranteed to save you grief, and none of these practices earn you any real money anyway. This isn’t a criticism of you personally, I almost certainly would have done the exact same thing and felt the exact same way. But hopefully this will help to remind me of what we all already know. It’s the gambler’s version of “protect yourself at all times.”
The conversation in the thread continues with most posters siding with Ansky that he got cheated or at least angled, some posters even questioning whether PokerStars should consider not hosting EPT Barcelona anymore due to all the controversy.
